The CEO Series: Gymshark’s Ben Francis & R.A.D’s Ben Massey
What were the experiences that led you to become a CEO?
Ben Francis, Gymshark: I accidentally became a CEO, and I'm still paying the price. Starting the business, you become a CEO, but you’re not really a CEO, because there's no one else working there – you're doing everything. I just started the business out of a love for fitness, and then it grew. I hired a CEO for about five years, Steve Hewitt, who did a really good job for us, then I came back officially into the CEO job three or four years ago, and I've been in there ever since.
Ben Massey, R.A.D: It's the same answer for me. I think when you have an idea and you can't see anyone else doing it, you inevitably will be the CEO. Ben was very clever in getting someone else in to guide, which I think I'll end up doing at some point.
Why did you think that your brand could have an impact?
Ben Francis: We started off selling supplements, then we fell into apparel. I was at my nan’s, I saw a sewing machine on the dining-room table, and I thought, maybe we could make something that we want, that we couldn't find elsewhere. Back in 2012, no one was making gym clothes specifically for lifters and that sort of body shape, so we started making the clothes for ourselves. Fortunately for us, other people really liked the product and then told their friends.
Ben Massey: If you have a concept and idea that is different, and serves a gap in the market, you are going to get adopted. I was looking at all of the shoes on the market and going, “These all suck. They perform fine, but they look pants.” And then it was, “Well, if I think that, then maybe some other people do, and hopefully there’s enough of them to build a business.”
What was the biggest challenge in the beginning?
Ben Francis: Getting enough money to buy the sewing machine, the screen printer, and build the website. We would have good days where we'd have three or four orders, and then we'd have no orders for a few days. Getting consistent sales was really hard. We built our business through events, but being able to afford those events was hard for us. Our first one was in Birmingham, the stand cost £3,000, and we had no money. They said, “We'll hold the stand for you, you just pay us over the next 12 months, dividing the £3,000 into the 12 payments.” So, at the start, you're building the ship while it's moving. As an example, we would finish every day at the office by sitting in a circle and just responding to all of our customer queries until they were down to zero.
Ben Massey: The hardest thing for us has always been the size we were in the beginning. We were going to these factories that don't want to give you any terms, competing against these huge global corporations that are getting amazing deals. But even before buying the product, I had no idea how to design a shoe. I had a perspective, but finding someone who knew what they were doing was hard.
What has it been like collaborating?
Ben Massey: When you're going into a collaboration, you have to have a perspective. The team at Gymshark are well oiled, and they have a perspective. For us, it was super easy because it was very clear from the beginning: it needed to be a genuine collaboration, two brands coming together with a shared perspective on what to make and who it was for. There's just kind of a natural synergy between the two brands.
Ben Francis: I was really excited as well, because our ambition is to be the best gymwear brand in the world. To do that, you need to live in the community on social media or at events, and I kept seeing these shoes pop up. We ended up having lunch, and talking through some ideas. But only about a week before you came in, I realised it was a UK brand as well. I was doing backflips. I was buzzing. You've got these two businesses that are laser focused on their own discipline, particularly when it comes to the gym and fitness, and they're both based in the UK.
Ben Massey: And both are founders called Ben. What more do you need?
Have you learned anything about being a CEO during the collaboration?
Ben Francis: I just love that R.A.D has still got this incredible entrepreneurial spirit, and all of its suppliers work to the same level as ours. I've also definitely had an insight into how technically difficult footwear is to produce.
Ben Massey: I've visited Gymshark HQ a few times. Ben's in the mix with everyone, and that is so powerful. As we grow, I want to ensure I'm always on the shop floor. That's where you get your greatest insights. That's where you learn from the people who are the specialists in their area. Ultimately, you want to be a facilitator as much as anything.
As CEOs, have either of you ever been close to quitting at any point?
Ben Massey: No, no option.
Ben Francis: No.
What are your current toughest challenges?
Ben Francis: As CEO, problems filter up. They all come to your desk, which is exciting, interesting and, at times, painful. We're sat in a beautiful flagship in London today, which has been a really successful store for us, but we’re 99% an e-commerce business. For us now, it's a case of, how do we build out a really strong offline footprint? How do we take that incredible community we've built online and through events into our retail business?
Ben Massey: For me, it's how we stay focused on doing one thing really well. I talk about a 25 year brand. What decision will I make today that is going to impact me in 25 years positively or negatively? That's the lens through which we think, and staying focused is the challenge.
Ben Francis: We made a mistake a few years ago, where we expanded our product range more than we should have. Now we’re looking to simply build the best gymwear in the world, and that’s led to a smaller, more condensed range, with really technical and excellent products. The reaction from the customer has been outstanding.
Ben Massey: You want customers to say, “I know where to go to get the best thing.” It's simplicity.
How does AI slot into your strategies at the moment?
Ben Francis: The short answer is, I don't know. It's such a rapidly developing area. On a short-term basis, we've seen massive efficiencies in copywriting and job descriptions, etc. It's fairly simple and obvious, but it's really helped our business. In the background, we're really trying to think: if we were starting our business again tomorrow, how would we structure it based on all of the innovations that we're seeing in AI today?
Ben Massey: I think Ben’s spot on. The speed at which it's evolving is almost impossible to keep up with. It's an incredible tool, and it would be foolish not to investigate. We use it for the ‘safe places’, like a job description, where it’s not going to be the end of the world if one word isn't quite right. For true creative copy, I think it's a great thought-provoker and something to riff off, but it's not replacing those truly unique ideas and perspectives. So, for now, it’s about efficiency.
How do you balance being a CEO with being a founder?
Ben Francis: We talk a lot about it! A founder will megaphone the brand, and communicate the vision and product development. The CEO side is the operational stuff: brand marketing, structural stuff, and HR. I enjoy the balance. This morning, we'll be talking about a really exciting new collaboration, then this afternoon, it'll be something completely different. Customers now are really interested in the thoughts and values of founders/CEOs, so it's important for us to be communicating a vision, getting feedback from the customer, and absorbing that into our business.
Ben Massey: An individual can build a brand so big with their outward-facing personality. The lens of that 25-year view shows me I'm going to be old and decrepit – okay, maybe not, but maybe not as cool – so it's important to convey the concepts, ideas and vision behind what we're doing. But I also don't want to be the frontman. I want the brand to be the frontman.
How do you measure success in your business?
Ben Francis: We did our Lift London event recently and had thousands of people come through. A worker turned to me halfway through the event, and said “Wow, Gymshark is a really good influence on a lot of these young people.” That to me is important beyond everything else. It was a Saturday afternoon, and there are so many other things that those kids could be doing today.
Ben Massey: For me, it's about enabling people to go after their athletic pursuit, whatever that is. You know, currently we're in this training space, and absolutely love it. But it's about ensuring, as we evolve, that we make the best performing product in running, skateboarding, tennis or football. For me it’s just incredible to be able to say, our products enable someone to do something. That will be the success, in my mind.
What are the key traits for a leader?
Ben Francis: I've met people who are incredibly collaborative and know how to get the right people in the right room, at the right time. I've met people who are insanely creative, and come up with ideas, then surround themselves with great operational people. Because of that massive variance, I think really authentic and open leaders tend to perform. All the best leaders I've seen really understand their product and the consumer.
Ben Massey: I agree. The only thing I would add is: know how to get out of the way when you have no idea what you're talking about. I think there's a level of humility that great leaders have.
What’s your one piece of advice for someone wanting to set up their own business?
Ben Francis: Just do it. I had six or seven failed businesses before Gymshark. I felt really bad after each one, and I felt like a bit of a loser. It's only when you get to the successful one, you realise that those failures were required to have the successful business..
Ben Massey: I think if you are afraid of failure, that is always going to limit your ability to start. When you're a kid at school and you get the answer wrong, it's not seen as a failure, it's seen as a lesson. I think that's what we need to take as we go into adult life: failure is actually more of a lesson. It's how you react to it and how you move forward.
Finally, then, tell us a bit about the shoe…
Ben Massey: There are actually two. R.A.D ONE V2 is the all-around gym shoe. It's really built for people who lift, who do a bit of conditioning, and it's incredibly durable and flexible. The other one is the R-1, and it’s more of a conditioning-focus shoe. You could do a little bit of running on the treadmill and high-intensity interval training. The materials are really premium, like a microfibre synthetic suede made in Japan. It's one of the best you can buy in the world.
Ben Francis: The colour palette is the Gymshark colour palette. They're really well made. We've never done a footwear collaboration before, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how it goes.
Visit Gymshark.com & Rad-Global.com
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