Let’s go back to your playing career, Joe. How do you sum it all up? 

I want to say that the first half was mistake ridden. But actually, when I give it a real hard think, all of it was mistake ridden. Just fewer big mistakes in the second half. But I think that's a good thing, because you want to learn from them. In the first half of my career, I had a lot of fearlessness. I just went out there. I loved playing, I enjoyed it, I didn't think about any criticism or getting anything wrong, I enjoyed it for what it was. Then you get a bit older, and you start changing things. Mistakes creep in, then you start adapting the game too much. You go through that sticky period, then you try to rediscover how you were when you were younger, when you didn't really care, and you didn't overthink everything. And that was sort of where I got to at the end of my career. I got back to being that 19-year-old kid, fresh on the scene, just enjoying it for what it was.  

Like, for example, heading the ball… 

Exactly like heading the ball. Which is my only assist in all of rugby. And the closest I came to actually scoring a try for England.

Was there a sense of having to unlearn the training to get back to the player you were in the beginning? 

It's more like I was overthinking all the time. I was trying to please too many different coaches. I actually had to go back to doing what I enjoyed doing. That can get lost along the way in your career. You see it in a lot of boys. People talk about ‘second season’ or ‘third season’ syndrome, when other players have worked you out. No, go back to when you first started. Remember what you love about the game, and bring that sort of super strength to it. 

Did anything scare you during your career? 

Not until I got towards the end. When I had kids, that changed my perspective on life completely. I'd start to look at big tackles and big hits that were going in and boys getting injured off the back of it, and think, ‘I'm not sure whether it would be any good at home if I've got a broken leg and I can't help out with the four kids.’ As you start having those thoughts, it's time to get out. There were also periods where I used to be scared to make mistakes, so I used to hide. I used to hide on the pitch. Not put myself out there in case I dropped the ball, in case I missed a tackle, so there was a bit in my career when I was a bit scared of putting myself out there.  

It's easy to be singled out, right? If you drop the ball at the crucial moment… 

And even more so if you've got a silly mohawk that's been bleached eight different colours. 

Which teammates most shaped your career? 

Most of the teammates I've played with have played a part in my career, just as I'd like to think I played a part in their career and challenged them in different ways, good and bad. One who stands out for me is Olly Kohn, who was my second row at Harlequins for a good ten years. He got one cap for Wales. He played just eight minutes and won a championship in 2013. Really good stat. Anyway, I was going through that big sort of hothead, red-mist period, when I was getting yellow and red carded every other week, getting banned left, right and centre, not really thinking and considering the rest of the team. It was all about me. I was attention seeking constantly. He just turned around to me one day and said, “Stop being a dickhead. You're ruining it for the rest of us.”  

As simple as that?  

As simple as that. And that was the light-bulb moment of, ‘Oh yeah, this is a team sport.’ This is about me doing my job for everyone else properly. So he's probably the teammate who's had the biggest influence on my career.